You can listen to Episode S4E11 right here!
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Hello and welcome to the Third Age Design podcast sharing essential information on senior environments. I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet, and this month part two of our panel discussion on ‘The Next Challenges in Senior Living Design’. Now in this episode, we’re going to focus on changing models of care, storage, (that old chestnut), staff needs, AI, and how that all important budget is divvied up. And later in the podcast, our Innovation Spotlight shines on how you might adapt an existing bath in any senior environment to make it walk -in without having to buy a new bathtub or hire plumbers. Speaking of adapting, there’s a Chinese proverb which says: “The wise adapt themselves to circumstances as water molds itself to the pitcher.” Adapting to the changing challenges of senior living design is what today’s episode is all about, and also why the podcast exists. Please take this opportunity to go to ThirdAge dot Design and hit the free ‘Join Us’ button to receive additional updates on the topics that we cover, which we like to call A TAD Extra. It’s useful information packaged for very busy people. The ThirdAge Design podcast is supported by Wissner-Bosserhoff. Elevate nursing care with intelligent beds from Wissner-Bosserhoff-blending modern day smart care technology with comfort, empowering caregivers worldwide. Discover more at www.wi-bo.com. Okay, to get started, if you haven’t heard part one of this panel discussion, you might want to go back and listen to that, either now or after this episode to get the full lot of information. You’re going to find lots of it in both parts. This recording was hosted at the newly-designed and innovative Shackleton’s furniture showroom and factory in Dewsbury, England, and thank you to them for doing that. We’re going to start with our original introductions, so that you can associate each designer with their own voice, and then we’re going to launch right into part two. Enjoy… I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet. I’ve already introduced myself at the beginning of the podcast, but I’m going to give you a little bit of information about me, and then I’m going to introduce the other panelists and let them tell you something about themselves. So I’ve been director of Park Grove design since 1993. We’ve won Pinder’s Awards, dementia design awards, etc. Really focusing on this area, we do some hospitality work as well. And I’m a Past President of the British Institute of Interior Design, for my sins. Let me go to Diana now. Can you tell us a bit about yourself?
Diana Celella
I will. Thank you. My name is Diana Celella and I’m the Director of The Drawing Room Interiors, which is an international award-winning design practice. I graduated my degree in interior design 1986 which is where my journey began in this field. I’m a BIID registered designer, I’m an associate consultant for Hammond Care Dementia Choices, and I served as Past President of SBID, Ssociety of British and International Designers, and I’m the Past Chairman of the Healthcare Design Panel. I work in commercial interior design, specializing in healthcare projects ranging from care homes to dental practices, assisted living and retirement villages. Got a deep interest in evidence- based design within the care industry. And I also work for my sins as well, as a part time university lecturer for Masters in Interior Design, Arts University Bournemouth, which has inspired my desire to share my design expertise. And in 2016 I was honored to be named West Midland Women of the Year for my contributions to design education.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So totally under qualified to be on this panel today. We’ve got another stellar star to my right hand side. You can’t see this because this is an audio podcast, but Tracy, would you introduce yourself please?
Tracey Richards
Yeah, thank you. Lori, so I’m Tracy Richards, and I’ve only actually had my design practice Three Nine Designs for four years, but I have been doing interior design in the care sector for over 10 years now. Started in-house with a with a large company, and then decided to set up on my own. We’ve got a relatively large design practice now, which is amazing. I’m really, really happy, and it’s continuing to grow. But yeah, we work on a number of different careir designs from nursing, dementia, assisted living, and, yeah, that’s all we focus on is care design. It’s our specialty, and that’s what we like to pride ourselves in.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And the company that you were with before we should mention, because a lot of our listeners are also in the United States. It was an international company, very, very well known in both the US and the UK and possibly some other countries as well.
Tracey Richards
Canada, I believe, yeah, good point. Lori, so yes, Sunrise Senior Living was, I was their head designer in the UK. So I led the UK team for a number of years, and then, yeah, unfortunately, that then changed providers, so I set up on my own, and I’ve actually got the work back, just externally, which is really nice, and get to see all the lovely homes and refurb them. So, yeah, it’s a really good job.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Care models. I’m going to kick this one off. What I’ve noticed at Park Grove is that within care, not at not retirement, but care, the models going more towards smaller family groups. Number one, are you guys finding the same thing? But number two, how has that affected the direction of the design that you’re doing? Because we’re finding it’s becoming less corporate and perhaps more homely in its approach, which then goes back to what Diana was saying about using re-purposed furniture, because when you’re in your own home, it doesn’t look like the moving van just left from the one furniture company. It looks like it’s evolved a little bit. Can you guys speak to your own experiences in that?
Diana Celella
I think sometimes, I mean, definitely I agree with you. The care model is going to these smaller family groups, smaller lounge smaller…. where it’s a challenge again, is refurbishments, especially if you’ve got, like, a 1960’s built care home and you’ve got dining room for 50 people at once. So then we have to look at whether we can change rooms around or use room dividers, or can we, you know, split that room into some lounges and put the dining room where a lounge or something, you know. So that’s where it’s more challenging.
Tracey Richards
I like to go around and look at the artwork, and if there’s any art that I really like, I’ll keep it and just have it reframed and make it a bit more modern or work within the scheme. So we like to do that, or we ask the residents, is there any ones in particular that the residents really like and will reuse them? So we like doing things like that, which is nice, but on the flip side to that, we get not just these kind of homes wanting to be smaller and homely. We we get a lot of them asking for it to be a little bit more like they’re going somewhere. So they might want the dining room to be more like a restaurant and they’re going there, destination, destination, so it feels like they’re going out. So if they were to go out to a restaurant of an evening, can you make it feel like that? So we’re finding a bit more. We’re getting kind of different functions that are being asked for. So, and it’s changing in terms of, we’re now putting in a few more pools as well. So, therapy pools. We’ve put some of them in recently. So yeah, it’s changing, and I think for the better, actually, demand is changing, and what they’re requesting is changing. So we’re getting we’ve changed quite a few where we’ve done private dining rooms, and we’ve made them a meeting room as well. So we’ll put a screen that can be hidden in a bit of joinery, so then it can be a private dining but then also staff can use it, because private dining is maybe getting booked out once a day, if that. So then staff can use it for their training or for any meetings, because otherwise they end up in one of the residence areas. And then the resident, you know, it’s a bit awkward if they’re trying to have a meeting and residents are trying to go to activity or something. So we’re finding that a lot Multi Purpose definitely, which I think is good. It’s a really good use of space.
So with refurbs, Tracy, what do you do to get around the storage problem? Are you ever able to talk an operator into giving up a bedroom?
Tracey Richards
We do sometimes, not always bedrooms, but I tell you, what we do do a lot of is bar areas or assisted bathrooms. So what tends to happen is they… We’ve got some homes where a few of the floors will be assisted living, and not necessarily. They’re all open, so they’re not locked from each other.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So it’s not care, yes, yeah, it’s a mix within the same unit. Yeah, yes, we got that.
Tracey Richards
And a lot of the time, two or three assisted bathrooms. So we’ll say you only probably need one, because now all of your rooms, and you probably have the same they’re all wet rooms, so they can be used. So the spa bath didn’t get used as much as it used to, because before they were having to step over something, a threshold to get into the shower, where we’ve now eradicated that, so now they can use them more and then so we just use one room, one. We say, at least you’ve got one bath if someone does want to have one. But then we’re providing at least one per area. And then, yes, sometimes we’ll change some of the bedrooms very rarely, but sometimes they will let us use a bedroom that, if they’re…
Diana Celella
I’ve just finished a new build, which was quite a nice concept, and it was rather than care, it was assisted living. So, you know, proper apartments, but it was for couples. So it was four people living with dementia, so they could then so that their partner could come with them. Yes, that’s nice. So there were apartments, but it so it was an almost assisted but a little bit more on the care side. But that was really nice project to work on. So they all had lounges, they all had bedrooms, a little kitchenette, but also had the same communal spaces that we’d normally have in care, whereas you have less of that typically in assistance, yeah, but we still had the same amount things like that that you don’t tend to have much in assistance, yeah? So it was like, almost like a hybrid house. But it’s really nice that if somebody is living with dementia, that they can actually go with their partner, because I think that’s a really that must be very good. And sometimes they can’t, they can’t, they can’t cope at home anymore. But to have that help at hand,
Tracey Richards
And also you find, especially if it’s the wife or the lady that’s got the dementia, the husband doesn’t want to be on his own, like he wants to go with her. Yeah, they’re lost sometimes, aren’t they, especially they can’t. That’s what I was going to say that generation. Sometimes, then they’ve never had to cook or clean. That’s always been the woman’s role. So when they’re without them, I had my neighbor just go into the home, but he went in with his wife for that very reason. He couldn’t cope without her.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Yeah, and that’s what my parents did. They went into it was called supported independent living, but it was the same thing. My father end stage dementia. My mother sharp as an actual tack. And so they’re in a community where they could actually live together without him going into a Memory Care Center, which your long your life span is shortened quite considerably the second, the second you do that. But some people that’s absolutely what’s required. So when you were doing that building, yes, did you use dementia design criteria for the whole thing, irrespective of whether somebody has dementia, yes, yes. And do you guys tend to do that in your projects anyway, because we don’t know where anybody is.
Diana Celella
Even if it’s care for residential even if it’s Retirement Living. Because I think the concept of sort of using evidence based-design for dementia, friendly design works for lots of other things as well. It might work for somebody with sight, sight impediment, hearing impediment. It works for the aging, you know, the aging eye. And we don’t know where somebody’s gonna, you know, start on their journey if they are. So I tend to do it across the board anyway.
Tracey Richards
And like you said, some residents, they might go in without any dementia, and they might not want to move room, so they might need to stay where they are in that room. And if you haven’t designed that particular floor or level in that yeah, you’re just asking for trouble.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
I think you get longevity out of the scheme as well, because the dementia criteria a little bit less pattern, a little bit whatever. So if you want to jugee it up, you can chuck the odd scatter cushion in with some cushion. But basically, the shell and the main investment that the client has made is a little bit more robust from a timeliness.
Tracey Richards
And it doesn’t date as quickly, because you’re not going with trends.
Diana Celella
And there’s been a big push on design for neuro-diversity, yes, and what we have to remember is that’s across the ages. So you might have somebody who hasn’t got dementia, but they might be autistic, they can a lot of the design evidence-based, design for dementia, a lot of it crosses over with neuro diversity. Design, doesn’t it? Design for neurodiversity. There’s a lot of concepts that work together. So I think, you know, it’s and it, you know, there’s people that have got sight loss all sorts, isn’t there. So it just makes everybody a little bit more independent, doesn’t. So, and that’s our, our biggest job is making people independent as much as possible, and giving them confidence, yeah,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Within the space, feeling comfortable taking ownership of that space, without feeling threatened in any way, anything that might happen.
Diana Celella
That’s our biggest job as designers, isn’t it in our sector. So I think we have to do that cross and don’t you think that then spills into everything else that people should be designing…
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Houses…I mean, have you ever met anybody in your entire life that hasn’t aged? I mean, if they have, they’re not here anymore. So why do we have to move just because we get older? It’s because our houses are built as if we’re never going to get past 50. One of the places where we need to raise the bar is with staff. Because this is absolutely universal.. I know from the podcast and speaking to people getting staff in other countries, in the UK, in the US, in Europe, wherever really a problem there tend to beasked a lot of for many, many hours at a very, very low pay at a job that requires them to be giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, and then they get given a room for their breakout that’s in a basement, generally speaking, without any natural daylight and furniture that’s left over that, rather than throwing out, we’ll put in the staff. How different guys? If you have, how have you addressed this issue?
Diana Celella
I think one of the problems is that lots of clients are talking about it now, so they’re talking about it and saying, we need to really have trust staff retention problem. We’re going to do really nice staff rooms. We’re going to give them advantage. We’re going to give them outdoor space. We’re going to have their own, you know, furniture. We talk about it a lot, but one of the problems is, then we get a bit further along in the project and value engineering comes in. Where’s the first place that goes out of the window? Always the staff room. We’re going to have to cut back on the staff room. Is there anything we can use, reuse? Is there anything we can do? We can’t lose a bedroom for the staff. We can’t do this. We can’t do that anymore. And so a lot of people are paying lip service to it, and we talk about it a lot, making more biophilic, more wellness, and we go through it all. And in the beginning of the design, it’s great, and we are doing all the things we should be doing, but then it gets cut. And I don’t know if you’re finding the same, but it’s really sad.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Because the staff can work at place A, and in the same town they can work in at place B, where and they can stay at a or they can stay at B, the needs of the residents are not going to be vastly different. So on what are they making that decision, and how do you retain them once you’ve got them and put all the time into training?
Tracey Richards
And when you say short sighted is because they don’t realize keeping staff is what’s saving them money, they think about all the marketing they have to do, or the recruitment prices, agency fees, see fees, training, all that time wasted on training for them just to leave in six months because they’re not happy. And you we put in all this lovely furniture in the rest of the home, which is wonderful and great for the residents, but then, like you said, we just reuse some old things in the staff room. What does it say to what is it saying we don’t do we don’t value you, and you’re working 12 hour shifts, and you know, you’re having to do quite a demanding job. And then it gets to your break, and we think just put you in the basement.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And then this is what we think of you here go to…
Tracey Richards
On minimum wage. You know, they’re not getting thanked in any way. It is really bad.
Diana Celella
And that says a lot about what you think about the care of your staff, doesn’t it? Yeah, because it’s a caring community, yeah, but it’s got to be caring community for everybody, yeah. And I think we’ve mentioned this before. We’re an aging population. Our staff are aging as well. We can’t. I mean, you know, the baby boomers now can’t retire till 67 it’s going to go on to higher end, so they’re going to need more comfortable staff rooms and things to keep people going, to keep because it’s a very manual engaged, yeah, it’s a very manual job. So you said, I mean, a massage. What would that do? Yeah, you know, 15 minutes on, that might make a big difference.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
We we do too, and we’ve tried, you know, can we get a massage chair? It’s 850 pounds as a one-off expenditure, and I have a choice. I’ve been on my feet all day. I’ve been doing manual handling and lifting people onto slings and whatever. I wouldn’t mind having my cup of tea with a massage. Thank you very much. Absolutely, and Diana, you mentioned the, it’s the, it’s the money that’s actually driving a lot of these decisions. And one thing that we find is, because you go to any care show, pretty much in any country now, and three quarters of the stands are the people are technology, the issue is where we didn’t used to have that coming into the budget that’s now going in top line, because that’s where the operators and the developers seem to feel they can compete by putting in this technology. But there goes 20% of your FF and E budget, and then we got, we get what’s left over. So how do we how do we direct them as designers? How do we earmark you really need this for the FF and E, you’re going to need a different pot for your technology? Is that where we go or what? I don’t know the answer to this. I’m just asking.
Tracey Richards
I think we have to be very clear at the beginning of the project that this is the budget, and it can’t be last minute, you’re going to half it or take 20% off of it, like what, like Lori says, always happens, because we’re the last to go in. You know, the builders have used all the contingency up on, I don’t know bricks were more expensive. 100% Yeah, of the time, yeah. And then yeah. It just gets to the point where I think we need. To be very clear as designers at the beginning, and what I normally say is, this is the budget. This is how much it’s going to cost. And is this build a 12 month, 18 month, or a 24 month, or however long it is, you need to probably put 3% on that for each year of the rising cost, because they’re not going to keep that so you need to be aware of that and not take 6% off at the end because it wasn’t the same quote as you had two years ago, because you want to quote up front so far.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Do you ever direct your client towards certain types of technology? Do you engage as a designer with here’s what we’re aware of…that’s the latest thing that you might want to consider, and then argue about your budget or how do you guys, that’s what we do. We go in and say, you know, there is you’ve mentioned this is an issue for you as an operator, we are aware of companies that work in this area. Here’s two or three of them that we can introduce you to. But then we have to go and we have to ring fence, but they can’t use our money.
Tracey Richards
That’s exactly how the conversation goes. It will cost you X amount more, if you want that.
Diana Celella
Yeah, we do introduce new and sometimes, like we I don’t have been to a show or an event or a conference, and I’ve seen some sort of new technology. And I thought, Wow, this would really suit this. So I ring the client and say, I’ve seen something. This is its cost. I think it would do. You want me to get them to in touch with you and do a demo and stuff. But I think, like Tracy said, it’s all about clarifying at the beginning that brief. I think the biggest problem is, you clarify your brief at the beginning. You’ve got your budget, but that technology that you know, if it’s a three year build, then the client only start looking at technology at perhaps year two, and then suddenly all this new technology come out, and they’re thinking, actually, I’d like to use that the only budget left is ours. It’s not been actually, that’s right, and that’s where the biggest problem is. So you can clarify as much as you want at the beginning, but it is because it’s quite fast moving the technology at the moment. [Oh, it’s so fast.] And there’s, you know, and people see things, and quite rightly, they want it then in their COVID, yeah, but then they’re looking but they almost need to add it to their budget. Because if that’s going to add your fees, yes, at your fees, because you’ve got this new Yes, technology that nobody else has got, then hopefully you can then put a certain amount more on your fees.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Would you be able to even guesstimate? I know for us, I can what percentage we are asked to VE by year three of the new build, and I’m going to tell you, for us, it’s somewhere around 17%
Diana Celella
I was just going to say 20, yeah.
Tracey Richards
17, to 20, yeah. And we had 50 before 50 without changing a single thing, as in, still the same amount.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
But then you have a quality control issue, because I can get you something looks exactly like that, but you are going to be reinvesting in two years,
Diana Celella
I think, not just because of technology for because the build cost has gone up, especially the last few years, you know, from Brexit and COVID, the build cost went up, and a lot of the buildings we’re still working on now were costed around that time. Yeah, so the build cost has been more than they’ve they’ve allowed for. And there’s now a problem, yeah, and I think hopefully we’re just coming out of that, but it has been a problem. We’ve got to now.
Tracey Richards
Yeah, we’ve got some of our providers that have put a stop to new builds because just the interest rates on the loans have gone up so much
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
On hold, yes, and then you’re waiting, yeah, the projects come back online. It’s all based on the interest, but when they do, they’ll all come online. Just to finish on if you as a designer in this area were to look in the crystal ball and say where I would like to see we’ve talked about the challenges where I would like to see Senior Living design develop into what I’m looking forward to is…
Tracey Richards
As we’ve just touched on it, but I’m actually interested in the new technology coming out, because I think it’s growing so AI is growing so fast, and it will continue to that. I think we can only evolve with it. If we stay static, then that’s it. So I think I’m really interested in learning a lot and seeing what direction that goes in. But they’re even talking, you know, about the chips in your hand to do everything. And it would not surprise me if a few years down the line, you know, everyone’s going to be out of a job that doesn’t have a chip. You know, it’s going to be that kind of thing where you we’re going to have to evolve with the AI, rather than let the AI take over. So I think that’s going to come into care eventually, and it’ll be how we incorporate that and embracing it, yeah, which is scary, and I know it’s scary exciting. It’s exciting, and that’s what I’m kind of interested in, and seeing how it goes. And as designers, there’s going to be a lot more AI that can help us get designs out quickly. You know, it’s a long process. I don’t think people realize. How much work goes into? Yeah, that’s the nice bit at the end. You know, that’s our reward at the end of all the hard work of the drawing pack and the meetings and the on site, you know, everything. You know, I don’t need to go into every little detail that goes into our designs and the hard work and someone just changing one thing, how much we have to then do. But I think AI might help us with that. And actually something that might take us six to eight weeks to produce, we might be able to reduce into two weeks. And, you know, we might be able to get things moving quicker. And yeah, so I am interested to see, interested to see how that goes and how that fits into residents use,
Diana Celella
I’m just going to comment on that and then say, you know, with the AI, I think we’ve probably really careless designers, because what we want is the AI to do all the boring treachery of writing aspects and all that sort of thing. But what we don’t want it to do is take away from the creative side. Because what we don’t end up with is care homes that all look similar because AI is producing designs for them. So we almost wanted to do the administrative, yeah, that’s exactly keep the creativity of the designers. So I think we’ve got to be really careful.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
It’s like when CAD first came out, all the architects were using CAD, but every building was square, because it was really hard to do things that weren’t square. And so you can, when you look at buildings, you can tell at which period, yeah, by how square the they were when they were doing the CAD. So it’s the same kind of thing.
Tracey Richards
You gotta be reallycareful which job it takes. And I think the more we know about it, the better we can understand, the better we can be at it.
Diana Celella
What I look forward to in the future, I suppose, is, and we have, we are moving towards this, but I’m hopefully that we’re going to move to more it’s more personal, person centered design, so that the design is designed around the actual resident, rather than generic dementia friendly design or care home design. So it’s designed around that person. So the room is very personalized, I mean, and even just simple things, like, you know, in lounges, we always put, like, different high chairs. We’ll do some that are an inch higher, some range lower, yeah. But why are we not doing that more in bedrooms? Yeah, we know the height of the person, so that making sure that, you know, within the room, you know, we look at what, how that person uses. Can use technology. Because, you know, people that are getting to Kerr now have been using computers for years. Yeah, technology. So how can we do just doing it much more human-centric do we call it? And rooms can be changed more quickly, easily to suit that physical person, without it having to cost a lot of money? So it’s, again, it’s multi-functional, really, isn’t it back to that?
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Yes, yeah, I can see how that links up. And then I would add on to what you’ve just said about the personalization in with something that we talked about earlier, which is the homeliness aspect of it. This is where I’m going to live for the rest of my life. It is my home. And I think with time and again, AI might be able to help with that…the personalization can help with that, from making more intimate spaces that you are really able to claim without causing fire hazards or without infringing on the esthetic requirements of other people that are living in the area and how we manage that. But I like to use the analogy of when radio started, it was vaudeville, but just audio. When TV started, it was radio with pictures. It hadn’t become TV yet. Then TV now isn’t TV anymore. It’s now streaming. When was the last time other than news, you actually really watched TV? It’s now streaming, so it’s becoming its own thing. And care and Senior Living started out as a hospital model, then it’s moved to this next model, and I don’t feel we’ve evolved to what we’re going to end up being. And I think that’s quite exciting to be part of.
Diana Celella
Really exciting, really exciting.
Tracey Richards
I think it’s gonna push us, yeah. I think it’s gonna really push us over the next few years as designers, which is good, like the creativity side, and how do we merge that together with the new technology and the personalization and the homeliness? And it’ll be an amalgamation of everything, and we’ve got to come up with some new ideas which is exciting. And we’re not just, you know, sticking to a brief.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
But that’s also where we as designers have, perhaps a slightly unique place within the design and build team, in that we are bringing all these disparate things together because we do the same thing. You know, we were saying we can introduce technology, which is not necessarily what other members of the team do. So the earlier that the clients engage us, rather than thinking they’re going to pick colors down the road after we’ve finished the budget, doesn’t help them and their offer in the long run. And I think the more that can get that out that, you know, we’re not going to charge more for engaging, engaging earlier. It’s still the project is still the project, but the benefit to the end user and to that operator can be quite different based on when we’re engaged.
Tracey Richards
Yeah, I think a lot of our clients are realizing that now, which is amazing we get right at the beginning with the architect, yeah, because, you know, yes. And then they’re always changed. You’re probably the same. We always change it. And actually, I think this might be better.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
But then also your team is built. Then the earlier you’re engaged, the more everybody is feeding off of each other’s energy, creativity, experience, to end up with something that’s really spectacular. And they don’t realize, although we actually need a plug socket there for this specific reason, it’ll be an afterthought. Oh, you wanted a lamp there. Why? And can’t you just move it to that area? No, there’s a dark spot. We need something there…
I always do the Christmas I always look at the main lounge or the entrance foyer, and the first thing I look at, where’s the Christmas tree going to go?
Diana Celella
Do you think as well, for the future, as well…do you think that care homes are going to become more of a community for the outside? Yes, we’re getting that touching on it, saying our salon, our cafe, can be some are doing it more than others. But do you think even more so that it could be that they can hire rooms, that they can be parties that are for the same you know that cinemas are used by both? Yeah, some care homes I go into that we finish, and they’ve got loads of the communities use the cafe.
Tracey Richards
We’ve just done quite a few homes with children’s rooms in because, yeah, and yeah, and it’s great, because what happens is, I know the son or daughter wants to go and visit family member brings the grandchild, and they’re bored in half an hour, and then, sorry, we’ve got to go. But instead, we could have sat in the bistro and the grandchild could have gone and played. And it’s, it’s working out really well with some of that they’re saying. So many more visitors coming in, and then they go, Oh, actually, I want to come in for a coffee and a cake.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And it’s easier for the staff, because people are entertained. And also that’s real life. In real life, we are not outside of care. I’m not saying that care isn’t real life, but it is segregated. It does segregate what tends to be older people from the rest of society and life ain’t like that, [no]. And if you’re gonna live there the rest of your life, I actually do want some input from younger people, but also I’d like, as a senior person, if I were living in care, I’d like to be able to share some of my experience.
Tracey Richards
I’m really hoping that’s the way forward as well. I think it will be. And we’re seeing some clients do it, which is great, I definitely. And then family rooms, family rooms, and just making their bistros huge so they can fit so so much in there. They’ll put a bar and a TV and loads of nice seating, and you just end up that becomes the hub, [children’s play area], children’s play area, and it just becomes the hub. And it’s really good to see.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And also, then the staff don’t feel like if they’re having a cup of coffee, they necessarily have to go to the basement anymore.
Diana Celella
And the residents feel as though they’ve gone out. Yeah, exactly, but their relatives don’t feel worried about taking them out and something happening.
Tracey Richards
Yeah, because it’s a nice environment, it feels like they go into a nice cafe down the road, and especially if there are other people there exactly. So yeah, I think it’s the way forward.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
It is interesting that our experiences seem to be similar and also echo what we’re hearing from other countries. So I think it’s a really important discussion to share, and thank you for being part of it.
Diana Celella
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
You’ll find information about today’s guest and on Shackleton’s outstanding furniture on the podcast page for this episode at Third Age, Dot Design. Well, I hope you like our new innovation, spotlight music as much as I do. It was written and performed by TAD’s very own producer, Mike Scales. Anyway, let’s get to the point. I spoke recently at the UK’s Premier Care show in Birmingham, England, and came across a new concept in walk-in baths, which I’d really like to share with you. Here’s my conversation with Faye Hanrahan, Branch Manager of UDOOR in the UK, but operating in several countries worldwide. Faye, thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
Fay Hanrahan
Thank you so much for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
I want to start by asking you to give us you know this thing, the elevator pitch that they use for pitching movies. Can you give us the elevator pitch on what UDOOR actually is?
Fay Hanrahan
Sure I can. I’ll do my best. Basically, the UDOOR is a bathtub door that is fit into a pre-existing bath. It’s an easy way to make stepping in and out the bath safer. So. We simply cut a section out of the bath and the panel and install our door that’s 100% watertight. It provides easy access for those with mobility issues, so the user can bathe more independently and with dignity. It’s
interesting because my partner was saying to me the other day, you know, what are you going to do when you get too old to get in and out of your bath? Because I’m a bath lady, yeah, and that’s how I end every day. And I said, I’m not going to and then I showed him the brochure that I picked up from you at the hair show, and I said, I’m going to do this now. I did some research that shows that the very first patent for a walk-in bathtub dates back to 1946 and is attributed to an Arthur E. Fowler and a Junior Albert Dressler. As these walk in baths have been around for so long, what sort of was the starting point on the development of this particular project?
Fay Hanrahan
The starting point was basically it was a family member of the creators. So the door itself is made by Balaj and Ernest Stumpf. They created the door, they designed it, and then they put it into production. And for them, they had a family member who just wasn’t able to get into their bath safely without assistance, and they really wanted to make a device that would make it easy for them to continue bathing independently. And at the time, there wasn’t anything like it on the market, so they they decided, why not put a door into a bath? So really it was kind of like in this case, it was innovation being the mother of invention. It was that there was a need. They recognized it, and they wanted to do something to help. So their intention wasn’t just to make just a door for the bath, but to also create something that could blend seamlessly into the bathroom, and that was built to last, and it really is. Our doors, our original doors have been fitted 14 years ago and are still going strong.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
A 10 year warranty on them as well, don’t you?
Fay Hanrahan
Yeah, we recently changed our warranty to 10 years, because if our original doors are still going, Why not allow everybody else that safety, that peace of mind by giving them a longer warranty?
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And are you mainly getting these installed into care home and rehab facilities or private residences, or all of the above?
Fay Hanrahan
The Udo is really popular in private homes and also in retirement communities. So we’ve also helped people with, in assisted living residencies, and it’s just a really good way for people who want to maintain a level of independence while bathing.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right, and my bath, I know, is it’s sort of in the in the style of a cast iron claw-footed bath, but it’s right, it’s acrylic. It’s it bends to the side. I mean, are there any particular kinds or shapes of baths which are not suitable for an installation of this kind?
Fay Hanrahan
I mean, essentially no. All you need is 46 centimeters of space, or 18 inches, and we can fit the door into basically any bath, including a bath like yours. So I’d say that would probably be a slipper shape of claws, yeah. So what we do in a bath like that is we will cut through the bath, but then we also add structural support underneath the door, so it means that it can be fit into any kind of bath, even water jets, like a bath with water jets, like a Jacuzzi bath or bath with air jets, we can fit the door into that. And it also can be fit into curved shapes, so a corner bath as well. It’s a really amazing invention.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
and how long does that take to install? How long would someone’s bathroom be out of out of order, or if they’re in a retirement community, or, say, a care home where there was a shared spa facility of some kind? How long would it take to put that in?
Fay Hanrahan
Typically, it takes between about four and six hours, but it can take up to eight hours in a more complex shape or style of Bath.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. And one thing I asked you when we met the first time is, presumably, you have to wait for the water, you have to get in and then wait for the water to fill up, and then the reverse of that is true when you’re getting out, which has always been the issue with a walk-in bath, even if it’s one that you’re buying that’s already together in one piece. Do you have any suggestions for keeping warm until the water reaches the level on either end?
Fay Hanrahan
So we recommend using a bath seat and a towel or a robe to stay warm. But you can also look into different ways to heat the bathroom. For example, you can get warm water wall-mounted heaters. They’re really useful, and they’re quite cheap to buy as well, but using a towel and a robe is going to be the first thing and the easiest thing to do just to stay a little bit warmer.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right, And this product is available, I know, in the UK, and that’s where I met you, but we’re obviously an international podcast, so I’m very curious to hear about what other countries have this product, and can it be ordered in those countries?
Fay Hanrahan
So, the UDOOR is available in Germany, Switzerland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and also in Hungary.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Fantastic. And is Is there plans to expand this to other areas in the world?
Fay Hanrahan
Definitely, we’re continuously expanding so listeners around the world may find a UDOOR in their home country soon.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. And for the time being, we’re going to put links to you, dor on the podcast page for this episode at our website at Third Age.Design, which will give you a link to the UK that you can use to follow up on listeners. So thank you very much, Faye for being part of the podcast.
Fay Hanrahan
Thank you so much for having me here.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
We’ve run out of time, so it just leaves me to say thank you to today’s panelists, Diana Celella of The Drawing Room Interiors, to Tracy Richards of Three Nine Designs, and to Shackleton’s furniture for hosting us for the recording. Thank you also to Faye Hanrahan of UDOOR and, of course, to our partners, Wissner-Bosserhoff. Elevate nursing care with intelligent beds from Wissner-Bosserhoff, blending modern day, smart care technology with comfort, empowering caregivers worldwide. To our editor and composer Mike Scales, to Valerie Adler of The Right Website, to Peter Thorne, who composed our theme music and is playing the piano with Mary Blanchard on flute, and thank you for listening. Next month, our year end world exclusive, when I’ll be speaking with Eloy van Hal, one of the founders of the Hogeweyk village in the Netherlands, about how this world-renowned dementia village has changed since its inception, and what they do differently now. I’m Lori Pinkerton role, and I know you will not want to miss this one.