You can listen to Episode S5E03 right here!
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Hello and welcome to the Third Age Design podcast where we do the legwork and you get the edge. I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet and this month a podcast that was some two years in the making criteria for bariatric design and care now, why two years you ask? Well, because most companies we found, just want to sell products. But today, we have an expert in the field, Tracy Carr, as well as links to important additional information on this niche but truly important topic. Have you ever heard of a mobility scooter which can fit in the overhead compartment of an airplane? Well, when you’ve heard today’s innovation spotlight, you will have. One of my favorite quotes on size is one from Mark Twain about what really matters. “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight. It’s the size of the fight in the dog.” Well, here at Third Age Design, even if you’re pressed for time and working with a small team, we’re here to share information which makes you a big player in the senior living sector. And if you go to the Join Us button on our website, you’ll get a free TAD Extra exclusive information for our community members and available only from us. The Third Age Design podcast is supported by Wissner-Bosserhoff. Elevate nursing care with intelligent beds from Wisner-Bosserhoff, blending modern day, smart care technology with comfort, empowering caregivers worldwide. Discover more at www.wi-bo.com. Okay, let’s get started. Tracy Carr is a leading advocate for the better care and understanding of larger patients. Working through her consultancy, fat lot she knows. She is passionate about enabling larger people to live their best lives at any size. She aims to give health care professionals insight into creating the positive changes that are needed to ensure equity of care. She works as a consultant to a number of leading health care companies and is an advocate for better outcomes for plus-size patients. She has developed seminars on maintaining dignity and on improving communication for people of size, which she’s delivered to a wide range of hospitals and clinical training establishments across Europe, Australia, New Zealand and most recently, in the US. In addition, Tracy works as part of a team developing training in the moving and handling of plus size patients. She also advises a number of leading companies doing the research and development stages of bariatric product manufacturing and Bariatric facility design. Tracy, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.
Tracey Carr
Thank you for the invitation.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Could we just start with the very, very basics. So the definition, I believe, of bariatrics is the branch of medicine that deals with the study and treatment of obesity. And, in online research, what mainly comes up when you look into this is surgical options. Now that’s not the only option that there is….and is there still a need for bariatric care? And can you shed some of the light on the causes of obesity for our listeners, please?
Tracey Carr
Yeah, sure. So obesity is a very complex condition. There’s accredited studies show there’s over 300 different separate causes. So every person you meet who is living with obesity will have reached that stage through their own unique combination of 300 different factors.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Goodness, I had no idea. I had no idea.
Tracey Carr
There are lots of assumptions about why people are bigger, but until you actually talk to the individual, you won’t know their particular circumstance.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
What are some of those? I mean, obviously I’m not going to ask you to list 300, but what might some of those reasons be?
Tracey Carr
They can be things such as hormonal conditions. They can be if somebody’s previously been active and is suddenly physically disabled, there can be conditions to do with compulsive eating, which is the reason that I am overweight. I think the reasons behind it are very, very complex, and it takes very sort of detailed clinical work to uncover the causes for each person, but, you mentioned weight loss surgery, and you mentioned lots of upcoming injectables. [Yes] I’m really excited by all these possibilities, but I would caution everybody to listening to realize that they’re not going to work for everybody. So as as an example. Injectables prevent you from feeling hungry, but in my particular case, I don’t overeat because I’m hungry. That is an assumption, a little like saying an alcoholic drinks because they are thirsty. That’s not why I overeat. So that injection isn’t going to work for me. So I’m thrilled to see work is continuing and developing, but I don’t know if there’s ever going to be a cure that is 100% for everybody.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
…and I believe there are some side effects to those as well that may or may not suit people. What is the specific weight that might put somebody into this category? Or is that also just as variable?
Tracey Carr
That’s also variable.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
I thought you were going to say that,
Tracey Carr
Typically, it would be someone who weighed an amount that meant they couldn’t fit onto standard equipment. So for a clinical hospital bed that might be 150 kilos, some beds are the standard bed is 180 kilos. Bariatric. The word Barros is heavy, but it can be more than just a question of weight. If somebody is particularly short, they could be considered bariatric because of the width of their body, not the weight of their body. So it’s just really anybody who doesn’t fit onto standard equipment, even people who are extra tall, can require specific equipment.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right, and so in terms of design, because we might company Park Grove design, for example, we’ve been asked several times to do bariatric rooms for care homes, for example, and or even retirement facilities, and there’s no place you can go to find out what the requirements are…which is why we were so keen to speak to you. So I believe the basics that we’ve looked into in the past were beds, chairs, manual handling, toileting and bathing. Am I missing anything critical from that list that you can think of?
Tracey Carr
I would also, for a long-time care facility I would also like to consider things like the social aspect…so access to a day room, access to a dining room and access to day trips out, for example, if they’re appropriate. So anything that you provide for your client of average size in a world with true equity of care, you would also provide for your patients of size.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. And you mentioned a really good point. So day trips out, it may be that a standard sort of bucket seat in a in a van, for example, might not be suitable.
Tracey Carr
Absolutely. Equipment..tere’s a lot better provision of equipment now. So there are a lot more, you know, wheelchairs, transfer chairs, etc. But even something as small as being able to give your your resident access to sit outside can be, you know, a fantastic benefit to mental health and physical health. So outdoor seating, for example, you just need to investigate. But the modern approach to looking at this is really about universal design, so not designing equipment and facilities specific for bariatric patients, but universal design, that means the equipment in place is suitable for a wide range of people.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right, right. And that makes sense, because we’re getting into this area all the time in terms of neurodivergent people and sort of making things accessible for everyone, whether it be limited manual dexterity or eyesight, etc, etc. So you’re saying the same thing applies with bariatric requirements.
Tracey Carr
Absolutely. So things, for example, like a ceiling hoist. At the same point you’re having your standard ceiling hoist installed, you could extend the capability and have it to be safe up to, say, 500 kilos. And then you have universal design: the room can be used for a patient of any size. As a bigger person, it feels much more comfortable to be considered business as usual, rather than a specific case, and rather than being put in a so say, bariatric room.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Yes I can see that it’s more respectful, for a start, absolutely, you’re not being isolated in any way. If that is, if that’s the approach that the designers or architects or operators have. Do you know in terms of fire escape, a lot of the care homes, both in the US and in the UK specifically, involve the beds fitting into the elevators or as they’re called in the States, or lifts, as they’re called in the UK. Do you know if most bariatric beds are likely to fit in a standard bed lift?
Tracey Carr
That would depend very much on the space in the lift and the bed, because there’s a huge variety of both pieces of equipment, but there are beds available that the sides are adjustable. So for example, they slide in and out, and alongside the mattress that the patient is lying on are two foam bolsters either side. So to transport somebody in a bed like that, all you have to do is lift out the two foam pieces either side, slide the sides of the bed in, and then it’s a standard bed width. So then your next concern, assuming your lift works for a standard bed, would be the weight limit, and it’s worth considering that a bariatric patient might have more than one carer with them at any time, so you would always need to make sure there was room for the appropriate number of carers, as well as the weight of the patient and the bed in your lift.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Why is that that they would have more carers, necessarily?
Tracey Carr
Typically, transferring a larger patient, unless there is an electric bed mover or something similar, you would want to have two carers or pushing or pulling the bed into position purely because of the, you know, the loading on the joints of the person doing the caring. [That makes sense. Yep] One thing, as a bariatric person, I if I happen to accidentally break some equipment, I could live with that. If somebody hurt themselves trying to give me care, I would be devastated. So I’m very keen on educating people that it may take one extra pair of hands just to make sure the people doing the caring are safe as well as the patient.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And in terms of you were mentioning about the beds and the sides coming in and out, but presumably there would be different size bed linen, bed sheets and things for those sorts of beds. Is that? Is that correct as well? Is that another consideration to think of.
Tracey Carr
It’s a consideration. But bed linen, thankfully, is a lot easier to get hold of in a variety of sizes. The hard surface, like the bed, takes a lot more evaluation, but there are some fantastic innovations on the market now of sheeting, services that wick away moisture etc, which can help your patient if they’re bed bound. 24/7, because pressure injury damage is a very concerning quality when you’re looking after bigger people who are bed bound, but bed linen, blankets, etc, is usually, usually available.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And the chairs, I understand that a bariatric chair, because we’ve, we’ve sourced them before, can take a greater maximum weight, and they tend to have a larger footprint, in general, to the standard chairs that one might have in their personal room in a care facility, for example. Are the seats also higher to make it easier to get in and out, or does that not necessarily follow?
Tracey Carr
Height doesn’t necessarily follow. When you’re thinking about moving a bariatric client, I would say to you, think about moving the skeleton. So the average human skeleton, we don’t actually require necessarily a higher seat, but it might need a seat that is wider and deeper to give a better seating surface. Seating provision is a whole science in itself, and there’s some fantastic work going on. But look at the way your patient mobilizes. Look at the height of a surface they can already mobilize off of, and then make sure your equipment is adjusted suitably. Most bariatric equipment is very adjustable.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
I did not know that so that that’s and you’ve already raised that with the with the bed, for example. And that’s quite critical, I would imagine, because then it it’s opening it up for use for a number of different people, for a number of different purposes, sizes, widths, heights, etc, as you were mentioning earlier, absolutely.
Tracey Carr
And I would say again, when you’re choosing equipment, don’t just consider the weight of your patient. Consider the width of them as well. So, for example, my body, when I sit down, my my weight spreads out sideways. So if I stood in front of a chair, you might think that is fine, but when I sit in it, I might fill the space up. So lots of bariatric chairs have adjustable arms that move in and out and. Them to accommodate so we’re not just looking at weight, we’re looking at dimension of the person as well please.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
That’s a very, very interesting point that I would definitely not have occurred to me, have we not been speaking and you mentioned about perhaps more carers, more carers, for example, assisting people in a lift, and the sort of weight that that might need. Presumably, this staff needs additional training in the manual handling of bariatric patients. What do you recommend as an expert in this area, that the hoists are built into the fabric of the building like you mentioned earlier, or are there free-standing movable hoists that can be recharged and used if people haven’t, for example, already put that infrastructure into their building?
Tracey Carr
Yeah, my preference would always be a ceiling hoist, something integrated into the building. But I completely accept that’s not always possible. And also in your facility, you need to consider falls recovery as well. If your client happens to fall from a chair or bed in a place where there isn’t a sealing hoist, how are you going to recover them? So mobile hoists are available, and they normally would take at least two people to operate them with a larger patients using them, but my preference is always for ceiling-mounted hoists I’m afraid. I’m I don’t mean any disrespect to the mobile products, but when you’re using them as a patient, a sealing hoist feels a lot more safe and secure. And feeling safe and secure is key to moving your patient, because if I lose confidence in moving I may start to decline things that are then going to have an impact on my health care going forward. So me, having confidence in the staff and confidence in the equipment is key. Staff do need extra training. It’s, you know, we’re still humans. We’re still two arms, two legs, a head, etc. We still need to, you know, our breathing and our airways looked after, but a lot of it can be to do with using the bariatric equipment and having the confidence to address the situation. There’s nothing more terrifying for your patient than seeing fear on the face of the person who’s about to move you. That is that is very concerning. Yes, bit of practice, a bit of confidence your staff being able to deal with the situation as business as usual, and not a huge calamity or a task that is going to take a huge amount of effort and work from them. Use the tools that are available, get the training. And it should be simple for you and your staff.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And then a hoist. Your preference is for an in the ceiling connected to the superstructure of the building, but then perhaps at least a free-standing movable hoist. Should there be a fall in an area that didn’t have that infrastructure in place?
Tracey Carr
Yes, absolutely. The combination of both should really take care of all circumstances. There is the part way solution as well, though, a gantry hoist, where you just have a solid gantry, but it’s not actually installed in the building. And lots of manufacturers can put those up in a specific room and take them down and move them for you, etc. So there’s three options, but it would be about thinking about your patient’s journey. Are they just going to completely remain within the room, or are you going to need to transport them and possibly recover a fall from a different room?
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
I hope they aren’t all in the room all the time. One absolutely would, one would hope, if, if at all possible, that that were not the case. And now we’re going to get on to a personal bugbear of mine So, so what I’ve found in my own research was a lot of the bariatric toilet pans the bases are in steel. And in fact, I’ve not been able to find any which aren’t. Is that how they tend to be? Number 1am, I missing a trick here? Are they normal height or higher? And are additional grab rails required, and should those be fixed or dropped down? Because, again, this gets back, which is why it’s a personal bugbear to the respect for people and having things that don’t look facilities, that don’t look overly engineered and are more respectful to this is where somebody lives now.
Tracey Carr
Yeah, the one thing I would always say about stainless steel is it always looks nice and clean. And as a person visiting a facility, I’m always conscious of infection control and things like that, so it wouldn’t overly concern me if it looked slightly clinical in my home setting. [Okay.] You can get bariatric commodes, for example, which you can place over an average-sized toilet, and the commode will take the weight, but you still evacuate into the toilet. [Right]. So that can be a nicer. A solution if needed. It also means that if your patient has visitors, they can use the facilities in the normal way, which feels a bit more inclusive. There are various things on the market, but one thing I would ask you to consider too is, how is your patient going to transfer to the toilet? Are they going to walk in and self mobilize? Are they going to need a walking frame? Are they going to be hoisted to the toilet? Example? Will they, will they turn around in front of it and walk backwards? Or will they transfer from the side? All of these things will need some consideration, and you need to, again, evaluate your patients mobility and plan their journey. And also plan for the fact that they will have good days and bad days. They will have days when they can self-mobilize, and they will have days when they might need a lot more help. There is available from one of a mass manufacturer, ‘a Architect’s Guide to Space Planning,’ and it actually talks about the footprint needed for average-size patients and larger patients. They’ve got some fantastic illustrations taken from bird’s eye view down, showing how much extra turning space might be needed, for example, for a wider bariatric chair and two carers versus a standard chair and one carer. So there has been some research going on and some thought given to helping people plan spaces.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Fantastic, if I can get that link from you, I’ll try to coordinate that with everybody so the listeners can also access that resource, because that sounds like a very useful, useful thing indeed. For bathing are we mainly talking about a movable shower chair, sort of situation, or a drop down seat, or what? What would be your preference for bariatric patients?
Tracey Carr
That’s a very personal thing. I mean, people of average size will have a preference for a shower or a bath, for example, but my preference would always be a shower. A shower chair can be great. I mean, the ideal situation would be that your patient can self mobilize to the shower, sit on a safe surface and shower themselves. But you know, things like a wet room doesn’t necessarily need extra facilities. It just needs to be a standard wet room, but have space for possibly a larger seat inside it.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And again, grab rails, just for a safety standpoint, or not necessarily?
Tracey Carr
I love to see a good grab rail. But I would also caution it has to be properly installed. You don’t want your work staff installing it last thing on Friday afternoon, when they’re in a rush. It has to be properly affixed to the proper surface on the wall. When mobilizing for a bariatric patient, it’s very important that whatever you grab onto feels secure. Sometimes a drop down handle will move when you use it in practice, and that can be quite scary.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Yes, because they can wobble side to side a little bit…
Tracey Carr
That would make me lose confidence in mobilizing myself. I’d also caution that equipment should be as silent as possible. If I grab a grab rail and it makes a groaning or a crunchy noise, I immediately lose confidence that it’s going to support me if I need it. So again, your equipment should be well installed and as silent as possible, please.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So you’ve mentioned confident, the word confidence several times. So that’s obviously a key aspect of this. What would you say is another consideration that most people may not think of when developing spaces for bariatric patients, you know things that don’t automatically pop into most people’s minds that you think ought to.
Tracey Carr
I think…that’s an interesting question. I think generally, as a population, we don’t want to feel special. We don’t want to feel like the facility has, you know, laid on all this special equipment just for us. And that kind of comes back to the universal design principle, if you can make caring for me feel like business as usual, I’m going to be a lot more comfortable in your care, I think, as well, if you can always make the message person centered so it’s always a question- for example, you would explain to your patient this equipment isn’t suitable for you. And the point is, never you are too heavy for my equipment. So it’s always the person at the center, and the equipment is peripheral. And if there’s any fault or adjustment, it is with the equipment. So if you can sell…sell it from the point of view of I want to do the very best for you. I want to take care of you and keep you safe. The equipment I have isn’t suitable, but I can get something better. If you can express the message in that way and not make it about equipment and weight and things like that, first, then again, your patient will have a lot more confidence in your care. And
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
is that the future? Do you think of accommodation for bariatric requirements in care settings?
Tracey Carr
Yes, in, you know, blue sky thinking, I’m an eternal optimist, and I believe that eventually we will end up in a place where every room is suitable for every patient. Every room can for example, the bed can be made smaller for one patient larger for another. The ceiling hoist works for absolutely everybody. I would love to see universal design, and I would like to see it spread out into the wider community as well, so things like a row of toilet cubicles where people can’t access if, instead of 10 average sized maybe there was six and then two larger cubicles, because that would help people who are pregnant, who are on crutches, who have a toddler who’s heading for the horizon. [Have a walker. Yeah, yeah.] Universal design helps absolutely everybody. So, yeah, I firmly believe, I am confident we will get there eventually.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
That is so helpful. You’ve given us a lot to think of and just to say to the listeners, we’ve been using the phrase patients, but you could, you could intersperse this with resident or retired person or any other number of phrases, is not to say that just because somebody has bariatric needs, that they’re necessarily a patient automatically. Is that? Is that correct?
Tracey Carr
Absolutely. And one thing about the word bariatric, it does tend to medicalize bigger people. We’re not necessarily ill or sick from being fat. We just suffer from the same complications that lots of other people do. So extended capability, or whatever you want to call it, people fall over language quite a lot when they’re trying to be respectful and sensitive, but if you call your patients plus size, that’s probably the expression that is going to offend least people. We could also say person of size or person living with obesity, those are all person-centered terms. But yeah, bariatric is a correct term in some circumstances, but not for example, for, you know, a garden chair, it just needs to be extended capability.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
understood. That’s so helpful. Tracy, thank you so much for being part of the podcast today.
Tracey Carr
It’s a pleasure. Thank you for the invitation.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
You’ll find a link to Tracy’s website entitled fat lot she knows, as well as a link for additional information on bariatric design on the podcast page for this episode at Third Age.Design.; In today’s Innovation Spotlight, I’m speaking with Stephen Brown, head of UK operations at Moving Life. Thank you so much for joining me, Steven,
Steven Brown
Hi. Good afternoon, Lori, and to your listeners. And here, my pleasure.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
We contacted your company because of an innovation in mobility scooter design, which I’m pretty sure is available internationally, just like our podcast is. It’s called the ATTO, and I think there’s even more than one version. Could you please describe for the listeners? What differentiates this particular equipment from other mobility scooters?
Steven Brown
Yeah, of course, it is available internationally, in 65 countries at the moment, and the key differentiator is, I think, is that it was designed by a man who had mobility issues. He was a successful businessman who wanted to travel, and he had the means to employ a designer, and he said about designing a travel scooter that would fit his lifestyle, and I don’t, can’t think of any other mobility products where that has been the case.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
That’s very interesting backstory, and obviously was meant to meet his specific needs, but also those of other people with similar situations. So why are there different versions? I think one is called the sport, or are they all called the sport… and I’ve misunderstood somehow?
Steven Brown
No, no. So the original, the original product was, was just ATTO, and that’s that that launched in 2016 and then in 2021 the ATTO Sport was launched along it.. So we still have the ATTO we now have the ATTO sport. The the ATO sport has got a few extra features, like lights, that goes a bit quicker. It has suspension in the wheels, so it’s got a comfier, comfier ride. We’ve improved some of the ergonomics. You know, we had the initial, I guess, a lot a lot of feedback from customers, where the location of the throttle was that was approved. We added some security so you could lock it with it with a key fob. You call it a clicker. Don’t you in the States. So things like that were added to it, and the styling is very different. So it was the sport version of the ATTO. And then we also had the Sport Max, which was really just a case, you cater for a heavy user, heavier user, which takes it up to, I’m going to quote you in stone, that when we can use stone in the UK, but it’s, it’s 300 pounds, I think roughly September, it’s 22 stone…yeah, 300 pounds. Yeah? Not for 140 kilograms.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
That was my next question, actually, because the the main topic of today’s podcast is on bariatric design. So the actual weight of individuals on this equipment is one thing. The other thing is the weight of the equipment itself. Because, as I understand it, the key aspect of this is that it folds up, it comes apart into lighter weight pieces, making it easy for people, for example, to put into the boot of a car if they’re traveling with someone who needs a mobility scooter, or perhaps they need a mobility scooter themselves.
Steven Brown
Yeah, that’s right, it. So one of the specifications when when Nino designs a product was that he needed to be able to lift it, and the combined weight of the product is just over 30 kilograms. So it’s quite heavy. It makes it very sturdy. So it’s a sturdy, sturdy scooter to ride around. But when it’s folded up, you can very easily separate it to two halves of 17 and 15…17 kilograms being the heaviest part of it, which, which, which makes it manageable for for a lot of people, not everybody. As you know, disability is a spectrum, and people feel some people are more able bodied than others, but certainly, 17 kilograms puts it in the category of the lightest folding scooters in the world.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And am I correct you can take it on an airplane. I believe I read that somewhere, yeah.
Steven Brown
So it has, it has an air safe battery, which is under 300 watt hours, which is the specification for airlines. And yeah, with it folding up, we have a flight kit that you can cover it with that protects the the scooter and the cavity where the battery would normally go. The battery is something you have to carry. You’ll keep on your person. When you’re flying, you’re not allowed to leave that on the scooter. And yeah, it’s, I mean, most of our customers buying it are buying it for for travel, be it camper vans, be it flying, be it trains. There’s just a boot of a car to go to the shop. It really is a product that’s been designed to get people out and keep people mobile.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Does it require any specialist training to be able to assemble or use this product?
Steven Brown
No, no. I mean, if you, if you, if you’ve ridden a car or bicycle, it helps spatial awareness, but, but no, you know, opening and closing it, there’s plenty of videos. Obviously comes with instructions. And all over the world, we’ve got good teams of people that help customers over the phone. In the UK, we’ll, we’ll do a video call with the customer if they if they need any assistance or any help, and if they were in vicinity, we also just call in. You know, it’s a small country compared to the US, so we can do things like that, but, but no, it’s pretty simple to use.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
in terms of the all of the 65 you mentioned different countries. Let’s not get into specific costs. But can you give me an idea of how the cost of the ATTO stacks up against, say, more traditional mobility scooters? Is it round about the same, little bit less expensive, or a little bit more expensive?
Steven Brown
It’s good question. It doesn’t have an easy answer. It’s a premium product. It’s not a cheap product, but it competes, you know, if you compare it to the larger scooters in the market, it’s probably cheaper, but there’s a lot of there’s obviously a lot of cheap products on the market at the moment. You know, which, which you can get for for a fraction of the price, that don’t compete in terms of features, styling, reliability, or anything like that. But it is a premium product. You know, there’s a few products in that category, not just ours, but it is a premium product. It it’s also often replaces two products, which is why I say it’s a complicated question, because a lot of our customers will will will replace the the scooter that we have at home, but they don’t go walk the dogs with the scooter, and then they’d have a travel scooter, which is usually quite small, the ATTO, one of the unique features when it opens up, it the the wheel base widens and as and it extends, so it becomes quite a substantial scooters, so you can usually get away with one instead of multiple products, in which case obviously brings the cost of ownership down a bit.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Yeah, I would think so. So if somebody wanted to look into this further, for either use within a care facility or for personal use at a private residence, how would you recommend they look into this?
Steven Brown
I mean, the first thing would be to just just, you know, search Google, look for Moving Life ATTO in the country. There’s usually, you’d usually find the distributor would appear right at the top. Alternatively, moving life.com Just send an email or an inquiry on the main website, and that would get filtered down to the region that that you’re inquiring from. So some some countries have multiple distributors, and others, we have exclusive distributors that would depend where that’s super
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Stephen Brown, thank you so much for being part of the podcast.
Steven Brown
You’re most welcome.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
As you heard, the ATTO scooter is available in 65 countries worldwide. So check for more information in your area, or simply click on the link in the podcast page for this episode at Third Age.Design for further information. Last month, we concentrated on events coming up in the United States. So I’m just going to mention a few from Europe. This time around on our TAD International Events Calendar, the absolutely fascinating Salone del Mobile is taking place in Milan, Italy, from the 8th to the 13th of April. And in June from the ninth to the 11th, you’ll find the 11th European Healthcare, Design, Congress, Exhibition and Awards in my hometown of London, England, drop a note in the contact page of the website if you’re going to be there, so we can arrange a tad coffee break during the event. And finally, Paris, France hosts our old friend Maison & Objet during the final days of summer, from the 4th to the 8th of September, as always, you’ll find more information and additional events from everywhere on the International Events page of our website at Third Age.Design. Thank you to today’s special guest bariatric expert Tracy Carr, to Steven Brown of Moving Life for joining me in the Innovation Spotlight. To our sponsors, Wissner-Bosserhoff, elevate nursing care with intelligent beds. From visner bosserhof lending modern day smart care technology with comfort and empowering caregivers worldwide. To our editor and producer, Mike Scales, to Valerie Adler of the Right Website, to Peter Thorne, who composed our theme music and is playing the piano with Mary Blanchard on flute. And also to you for listening. I’m Lori Pinkerton Rolet, and next month, personal reflections of our visit to The Hogeweyk Village in the Netherlands. It’s the bits they don’t tell you about. Please join me then.