You can listen to Episode S4E2 right here!
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Hello, and welcome to the Third Age Design podcast sharing essential information on senior environments. I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet. And this month, it’s a Dementia Innovation special. You may not know it, but the United Kingdom sits in the number one spot in Europe and number three in the world for its technology sector, with a market value of over $1 trillion. The other two are naturally the US and China. It’s hardly surprising then that some of the key innovations in supporting those with dementia come from this relatively small collection of islands. Talk about punching above your weight. Anyway, today I’ll be speaking with a game-changing innovator from Scotland, complete with a truly fantastic accent; and a tech developer in Oxfordshire, England, about a new kind of person-centred care support, with many potential uses-none of them more profound than supporting people with dementia. Some things just never change. The ancient philosopher Seneca said, “Men can be divided into two groups, one that goes ahead and achieve something, and one that comes after and criticises.” I’m an interior designer and not an architect. And I’ve always thought that they get less criticism than we do. But of course, I could be completely wrong about that. But what I do find as a designer of care and retirement and dementia design, that everybody thinks they’re designer if they’ve done their own house. Well, let me tell you, it’s completely different in the sector. And what do we base it on, we base it on continuous research, lots of it. That’s how we design and that’s why not everyone can do this. It’s also why the Third Age Design podcast exists-to provide designers, architects, developers, and operators with the latest concepts and innovations from around the world to improve senior living environments everywhere. In addition to the podcast, if you go to our website at Third Age Dot Design and hit the ‘Join Us’ button, you’ll automatically receive this quarter’s A TAD Extra exclusive information for our community members. Now, since we started the podcast in 2021, you can learn an awful lot in a half hour. So let’s get started. According to the World Alzheimer’s Report in 2023, the number of people living with dementia across the world is expected to rise from what was 55 million in 2019 to 139 million by 2050. Meanwhile, you’ve hopefully heard of the study published by Lund University in Sweden, where they’ve developed an algorithm that combines data from a simple blood test, and brief memory tests to produce apparently with great accuracy, who will develop Alzheimer’s in the future? So how as the society are we going to support all of these people? While we can’t answer that particular question in today’s podcast, we are revealing two cutting-edge technology tools which can help. And, from a design and space perspective. neither takes any special facilities. But this first example may well impact what and how you design. We’re starting our dementia innovation special with Kevin Gordon, co founder of VR-EP, standing for virtual reality empathy platform. Now after 17 years of studying, lecturing, and designing in this area, my entire understanding turned on its head two years ago, when I met Kevin and saw what his headset did, this virtual reality headset, at The Care Show in Birmingham. And he now has three offers. Kevin, can you just explain briefly how this idea and concept came about?
Kevin Gordon
Thank you, Lori. Yeah, it’s been an exciting journey. And it really came about when an architect said to us, there is more to dementia than memory. And that’s when the world of you know, sadly, the the visual and cognitive challenges opened up. We were working with academia up in Scotland at the time., connected with the Sterling University is dementia centre, and really the roadmap has unfolded since then, but but some exciting developments on the on the roadmap now. further enhancing the experiential learning, you know that VR opens up, Lori, is so excited to share that this morning.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Thank you and you’ve got three different sort of product avenues now as I understand it, Dimentia DX, Product X and The Design Tool, could you give us the, the Dimentia DX seems to be a workshop? Can you just sort of set the scene for that and how that works in practice?
Kevin Gordon
Yeah absolutely. So that’s really been developed extensively, considerably. through market research with our training delivery partner Age Scotland, who operate the dementia training contract for the Scottish Government up here. They’re part of Age UK. So it’s a train the trainer model has been developed considerably. Also, since we last spoke, we now have an operating on the cloud accessible from the cloud. We use Amazon Web Services architecture in the cloud to make this offer as that kind of global reach. And we’re working with Fanshawe College in Canada, training their OT’steas and community nursing specialists alongside their interest from South Africa, following that each global agent conference that we met at Lori in Glasgow, so it’s very much a trainer trainer model we’re working with on a on a on the final stage of a UKRI bid to gamify. This through some funding to add to the accessibility of the trainer trainer platform. So we offer that as a licence for a three user licence or a five user licence-over one, two or three years, Queen Margaret University in Scotland have bought into it as part of their pedagogy here that they’re all training platforms and offerings. So it’s, I think we’ve got about 20 licenced customers at the moment. So it’s growing nicely.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So this is primarily for groups to use with their staff to give them a better understanding of the experience for somebody with dementia, is that correct?
Kevin Gordon
We are always at pains to stress that our product is not for the person living with dementia, but everyone around about that person to embrace the quality of life and prolong Independent Living, reducing slips, trips, and falls through better education to have a built in dementia friendly environment, that holistic view that’s really required to deliver a healthy dementia friendly environment, the built environment, so we’re working with lectures, colleges in Scotland and NHS themself. So they’re using it to train their staff, their families, and really everyone around about that person that they know or look after our care for our design for or or house that’s living with dementia.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. So when I put the headsets on, as I said, at the beginning, it totally changed my view. I thought I knew about colour contrast, I thought I knew, you know, the things that I’ve researched about what the experience might be for someone with dementia, and I can understand how that would be really, really important for people working with people with dementia. Can you describe what when you’re training what people are experiencing through the VR?
Kevin Gordon
Yeah, no, no. And it’s important to stress that you know, you It’s often said that you meet one person with dementia, you’ve met one person with dementia that are that it’s not a one size fits all but there are commonalities around lighting contrast colour. I have a slide now my my girls called her grandma loosely, but she was actually my mother in law, but I think grandma’s a bit more appealing than when you see a mother in law. But my, my, my mother in law, sadly passed away with Alzheimers and I have a photograph of her taken a number of years ago, in our favourite chair in her house in Aberdeen, sitting there with a neck brace on because she fell at home because she missed…. depth perception is something that’s very powerful in VR. And it’s very, very powerful to demonstrate and communicate what that’s like how depth perception can get confused and pounded by the Alzheimer’s dementia challenge. But grandma, she said to me in her chair when I took the photograph, you know, something’s different with my eyes. And that was a powerful picture, I said look at a picture because then after that, sadly, her confidence dropped considerably. her quality of life dropped and we…so standing at the top of the stairs is quite daunting and easily confused and when the dementia compounds that then leads to slips, trips and falls and the economic impact that societial impact the personal impact, the impact on the family was was quite considerable. So if we can help communicate what that is Like, the transition between rooms, you know, from lounge to the toilet. Incontinence is obviously a challenge as well for people with dementia where they are looking a bit confused and a bit worried and hesitant and reluctant and actually don’t move into the toilet space because if they feel with the floors to shining, they’re gonna fall into a pool of water.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And also what I noticed, besides the sort of depth perception and the colour differentials was everything was so much darker and grayer with a headset on that it was it was actually depressing in and of itself to, to see the world through that particular lens.
Kevin Gordon
Yeah, yeah, we’ve we’ve had some very emotional sessions where people, you know, feel like that Lori, and we are working but But thankfully, you know, it is possible to improve that through colour, you know, colours, major light, Grandma I’m always loved, you know, lots of light in our, in our home, in our in our house. And you know that so you can make changes, it’s, it is sad, but it’s good to know about it. The positive thing is to interior designers and and architects and built environment experts, it is possible to improve that and help that situation. So keeping on the theme of vision, we’re working with Site Scotland at the moment. So we are developing additional filters, so glaucoma, macular degeneration, and, and all these other age, not not just dementia-related, but when dementia compons these challenges, but aged related eye challenges so and also the acoustic side, we are working in partnership through Age Scotland audio the acoustic challenges, you know, tinnitus, and and these these challenges. So the roadmap, we are we are, it’s taken considerable investment, again to develop this with with our VR developers and our partners. But we are in the phase of taking it to users and out to the market and through academia, specialists, you know.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So a whole broader spectrum. And you mentioned shiny floors, for example. And I think that ties in with your your second product, or filter, which is basically the Product X which is choice and products where I believe you take companies such as Tarkett flooring, and you are a designer, for example, or an operator looking to either build or upgrade a facility can see different finishes within the VR headset to see the impact of that. Is that correct?
Kevin Gordon
Yeah absolutely Lori, I mean, target have been a fantastic support. They’ve since gone on to invest in the company and really help us develop this roadmap. We’re now working on a neuro-diverse area. You know, we’re with autism, and the crossovers with neuro diverse challenges, visual challenges. So we’re working with Tarkett at the moment. But to answer your point, yes, absolutely. They actually modified a number of their flooring products. Because when you look through the filtered environment through our patented filter environment, they could see how product wasn’t great. They’ve made they’ve made some some improvements, a lot of improvements and and brought in a range of dementia friendly flooring products, which helped with design, with transition, patterns on the flooring. And they’ve been a great supporter. So they’re using they’re still operating with with VR-EP globally, the states as well, North North America, but predominately in Europe. So their specification team who work closely with interior designers and architects, and really help convey that message is really to raise awareness of these challenges and and improve that built environment as a result.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So you’re actually impacting the supply chain, as well as informing people working with people with these various various conditions autism, dementia, etc. And then for the designers and architects, specifically, you’ve got, you’ve The Design Tool as a third sort of sort of branch, can you can you describe how that is used in practice?
Kevin Gordon
Yeah, we, the aim of that product was really to work even closer with architects from from the conception of their model. So BIM model, we would take a BIM model or feed it into into our platform, we use the Epic Games, the Unreal Engine, and the guys Epic Games on a global front have been super supportive when they realise what we’re using their platform for really to ultimately improve the quality of life. We’re not we’re not we’re not we’re not Taking a game here, this is this is real life. So it’s not bottom line, it’s it’s quality of life. So they’ve given us access to software that enables us to take out an architect’s BIM model fit into into the VR-EP and apply the filter and walk through that, that model using using an empathy filter. So that’s, that’s really the third, the third area of how we’re using VR as an empathy platform.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So a designer or an architect, could, am I correct, take their CAD model, put it into BIM, and actually, theoretically walk the developer or the operator through the space that they’ve developed, or that they’ve designed to see what that would look like for, for example, for someone with dementia, is that correct?
Kevin Gordon
Yeah, it’s been the toughest, it’s been the most challenging, that kind of, you know, honestly, I admit that it’s been the slowest product to develop. But again, with Unreal Engine support, we’d have access to their platform called DataSmith, which does enable us to take a BIM model Revit model into VR-EP and walk through we were working with a hospital with an NHS estates team currently around this to develop this.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
It is absolutely game-changing. And I really what you’ve done even in the two years since I’ve met you, and the develop the further development and what you’re doing now, the partners that you’re working with, that’s really why we wanted to share that on this special design innovation special because this is this is the future of designing for this area. Thank you so much, Kevin, for being part of the Third Age design podcast.
Kevin Gordon
Thank you, Lori, good to see you.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Now, let’s look at a different technology entirely one which can help people with dementia directly, as well as their care team. Darren Evans is CEO of the digital platform After Cloud based in Oxford in the United Kingdom, and part- funded by the European Regional Development Fund. Darren, I understand there’s more than one app here. How would you describe what After Cloud offers which didn’t exist before?
Darren Evans
Yeah. Hi, Lori. It’s fantastic to be here. And so essentially, we offer a platform which sits across three verticals. So our products effectively sit within health and social care vertical, a heritage vertical, and a consumer vertical. So our product range sort of sits across those three, and the apps themselves…well, one is a sort of digital journaling app, which has the capability of forward posting. So I don’t think that existed before…
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
It’s forward posting?
Darren Evans
Yeah, it enables people to post to a future date in a closed group setting. So I’ll give you a couple of instances for that. One would be, let’s say in a palliative environment or end of life, where they can post posthumously, as an example. Yeah. And another one would be in relation to say social care or dementia related services, where somebody wanted to remind themselves of something. So I have a GP appointment next Wednesday, or, or next Friday as an example, in their own voice, so they can recognise themselves, that sort of context. So it really depends, but that didn’t exist before. And then secondary, another product of ours is called Timelines. And that enables, sort of, we utilise moments which are multimedia datasets, images, letters, audio and video. And we can edit them together as what we call a ‘Moment’. And those moments can be then plotted chronologically to create a history of whatever it is, the timeline is representing, if that makes sense.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
It does. So it’s almost like a a digital diary of sorts. Is that correct?
Darren Evans
Yeah, On one of our apps, it’s a digital diary on another of our apps. It’s, it’s a life story as an example, or it could be an asset history as another example. So again, two examples, very brief examples. One would be your life story, plotted chronologically utilising multimedia datasets, starting from your date of birth, really, and then looking at all the momentous moments throughout your life. And what that consists of.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
How would that be? How would that be used?
Darren Evans
Well, essentially from a genealogy perspective, it captures your life the way you want it represented. So not like social media does the you know in these days It’s more of a representation of you and your life for future generations ultimately, or to link with other members of your family. And then another example of that would be a heritage. So we recently unveiled a statue, wanting for town council, the commissioning organisation unveiled a statue of Dame Agatha Christie, entitled A monument to imagination. The fantastic bronze statue and on that sits, and After Cloud timeline in the output is a tremendously presented AI QR code. So it’s a piece of art in its own right, but that for the visitor, they can access that and see the backstory of Agatha Christie Christie’s life.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So if I understand it correctly, what you were saying about the timeline, etc. Could that also be used in dementia memory care units to share background information about a resident, for example, with the care team? is one of the other products better suited to that?
Darren Evans
Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. In fact, we are now undertaking some research in that regard with through NIHR, but with Berkshire NHS Trust ResearchHhub, so across six of their wellbeing-hubs for people living with dementia, and there’s two sort of avenues to that one is as a post diagnostic support tool, so that journaling type application so that multi agencies can be involved in, in the management sort of person-centred management of an individual with a with a dementia diagnosis, but also presenting the timeline to hierarchical social care systems or, or planning systems, almost like a living care plan so that the carer has the backstory of the individual they’re caring for,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
You are not just a number, you are a person. And I mean, that’s kind of the ethos, I believe the you mentioned, person centred care, I believe that was first coined by Dr. David sheared, who has been a previous guest on this podcast, and he was saying, you know, it gets bandied about all the time as a statement, but there other than a regular care plan and dietary options very few things actually get that personalised, don’t they? So this is a very, very personalised thing, but must require quite a bit of time. How involved does a family need to be, for example, if there was a diagnosis of dementia in getting the materials together for something like a timeline?
Darren Evans
Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s crucial actually, I think family input will be vital. We have what we call a companion feature in one of our apps, which lends itself to that sort of advocate really, which which works particularly well. I think what we ultimately what we want to try and do is get two people at an earlier stage. In life, we support children’s services, an example that in fact, we’re just about to make an agreement with a very large established charity in that regard for children’s services, so that we build timelines over a period. And that, of course, then can continues throughout life. One of the other things we’re doing from a research perspective is looking at the ability to include music as pivotal moments on the timeline to invoke, you know, cognitive recall further memory and reminiscence. And again, we’ll we’ll look to research that as well. So ultimately, what we want to try and do is get to people as early as possible,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right, so there there can there can be built up over time, and I can foresee organisations that specialise for example, in dementia care offering this as part of you, you move here, we’re going to support this timeline of your of your loved one, both for their benefit, but also for yours. And as a long lasting memory. I mean, it could be part and parcel of almost the service that they’re providing, as an adjunct to the care itself.
Darren Evans
Yeah, I agree. I think it’s transient, isn’t it, like people and like our movements in life? I agree. I think it would be a really good component part. One of our non-execs, Socia Roda is from a social care background, very, very, you know, well regarded. And one of the things we’re doing now, as we already do in children’s services, interestingly, is put together a product Steering Group, which kind of validates what we’re doing, but also, you know, gives us scope to listen and understand from a PPI perspective so that that patient involvement, consumer involvement, partner involvement, but not just us, saying, look, here’s a solution where actually listening in and adapting important to, according to people requirement.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
With the feedback that you’re getting, I mean, how, how difficult is it? If indeed it is to train either family members or members of for example of staff as to how to put these together? Is it? Is there a management system for helping people through that path? Or is it something that you undertake with the group? Or how does that work in practice?
Darren Evans
Well, to date, what we’ve done is independent training in relation to provider organisation. So partners, providers, we undertake very, I mean, the training is not extensive that we’ve we’ve tried to maintain a really good user interface for the app to keep it simple for people to utilise. [Right.] And we believe we’ve done that, and as much as possible, that you know, from a consumer perspective, as an example, when there is no training, they download the app, and off they go. And, and people tend to be okay with that. I think in the context of social care, we do sort of train the trainer type approach so that it can be cascaded to family members, other practitioners and carers alike. So an element of both, I think, as we go forward, we’re looking to involve a little bit more sort of video, or animation, or you know, those types of things. So, but we’re open to all sorts of training procedures to try and keep it as simple as possible.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Thank you so much. We are going to have information and links to your organisation on the podcast page for this episode at Third Age Dot Design. Thank you, Darren.
Darren Evans
It’s an absolute pleasure. Lori, thank you so much for the invitation. Just before I go, Can I also just quickly say a thank you to Dr. Chris Johnson, who’s also I think being on your show previously, [he has indeed ] Yeah, his his theory of timelines. Him and his wife created it, the actual paper they wrote in terms of time travel, works particularly well with our product. So it sits in line with that. And so I just wanted to say a quick thank you to Chris, as well.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Thank you. And we will actually try to link that around as well, so that we’ve got all the information out there for people on this topic. Thank you. No,
Darren Evans
it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And, you’ll find links to both of the innovations discussed on today’s podcast, as well as the study out of Sweden I mentioned earlier on the podcast page for this episode at www Third Age Dot Design. Well, we’re out of time, so please don’t forget to check our website for the international events calendar and additional information, which only leaves me to thank special guests Kevin Gordon of VR-EP and Darrin Evans of after cloud, to our fantastic producer, Mike Scales, to Valerie Adler of The Right Website to Peter Thorne, who composed our theme music and is playing the piano with Mary Blanchard on flute and to you for listening. I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet And I do hope you’ll join me for the next one.
