You can listen to Episode S2E12 right here!
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Hello, and welcome to the Third Age design podcast, sharing essential information on senior environments. I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet. This month, we’ve changed the podcast format. So we can look back at 2022 and some of the outstanding new developments featured in our ‘Innovation Spotlight’. A few of our favourites if you will, because these segments often create the most impact and can very directly affect the interior environment. We’ll be looking at artificial sunlight, virtual reality, and much more in this yea-end review. If you’re a regular listener to the Third Age design podcast, you’ll know that we always begin with a quotation…and this one is a particular goodie from the ancient Greek politician Pericles. “What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.” Now personally, I think that’s gorgeous. And if like me, you’re engaged in design, suppor,t or care for people in their third age, then you’ll recognise that what you have to offer has a profound impact on the quality of life of others. And that’s the very reason for this podcast to share global information to improve senior environments. Now, in addition to the podcast, you’ll find a lot more on our website at Third Age Dot Design. And if you hit the ‘Join Us’ button, you’ll also receive this quarters ‘A TAD Extra’, exclusive new information for our community members. We’re in 22 countries now. So we think we must be doing something right. The ThirdAge.Design podcast is grateful for the support of Innova Care Concepts whose mission is to enhance quality of life through innovation. From hydrotherapy pools to furniture, you’ll find quality, aesthetics and functionality in all unique Innova products. Innova Care Concepts, the leading edge of health care. Okay, let the Best of the Innovation Spotlight begin. Back in April of this year, I asked Dr. Bushra Siddiqui of Cogni DX to explain the international research that she and her partner are doing to improve dementia diagnosis, and how this might eventually impact independence and interior environments.
Dr. Bushra Saddiqi
As you know, it’s a pandemic that’s one of the biggest global health challenges of the 21st century. And currently, from the 55 million people in the world living with dementia. It’s astounding to know that 41 million of them never get a diagnosis. And that is because early stage dementia is extremely difficult to diagnose, especially in the primary care setting. And waiting time to get a diagnosis can range from a few months to a few years due to the deceptive nature of the symptoms of dementia, and how they can be confused with other conditions. So as the benefits of an early diagnosis of dementia are profound, not only for patients, but also of course, for the carers and healthcare systems, here at Cogni DX, we have developed an electronic tool that provides early stage diagnostic and long term care solutions for dementia. So if you will allow me to quickly give you an insight into our primary innovation, we’re approaching cognitive with a very hybrid approach. First, we uniquely digitise and accelerate the complete, comprehensive and fundamental procedure of history taking. And alongside that we also provide a thorough cognitive assessment to further identify the cognitive decline our machine learning algorithms and instantly reduces the probable dementia diagnosis down to the exact subtype in the comfort of the patient’s home, and hence the diagnosis instantly to the GP to take an appropriate action.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
This is still going through the doctors then so it’s not that you’re remotely diagnosing patients in any way and telling them what the diagnosis is.
Dr. Bushra Saddiqi
No, no, of course not. Because as you know, Lori, communicating a diagnosis is a very controlled act, and hence Cogni DX ethically will not provide the diagnosis on screen to the patient. And instead, a detailed report will be will be delivered immediately to the GP long along with a complete plan of action that includes other physical and laboratory investigations to conduct to strengthen the diagnosis before the specialist.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So what sort of countries are involved in the research that you’re currently doing?
Dr. Bushra Saddiqi
So currently, we have done two pilots on retrospective patients in Saudi Arabia and we have a 97% accuracy rate. So because we need the product to be validated in several different demographics, before we launch it, we are now embarking on a third trial on prospective patients in Oregon, USA. In the pipeline, we have Vancouver, Canada, and Singapore for trial students well,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. And then I understand you’re going to be setting-up a follow up sort of support service. And I think this may be where interior environments might play a part. What do you think that support service will end up looking like? And how can the architectural and design community participate?
Dr. Bushra Saddiqi
Yeah, so I’d call me the glory, we’re offering a holistic approach to patients with cognitive complaints. So alongside our primary diagnostic service, we will also be offering two more services. The first one is cognitive health, and that’s for people diagnosed with MCI mild cognitive impairment with pre-dementia, and how they can adjust their lifestyle and significantly delay the risk of developing dementia, specifically Alzheimer’s. And then we have cognitive ageing, which is a follow-up and maintenance of quality of life service for dementia patients in every phase of their in their carers. And this is a service which is extremely crucial as once a patient is diagnosed with dementia, and they start their journey with dementia pathways. Cogni DX experts take care of providing the patient with information and guidance on what symptoms to expect and how to deal with them. How and where to get community support, resources at their fingertips to improve quality of life for not only them, but also their carers who burn out faster. And finally how to consider adapting the design of the environment they live in. So it contributes positively to their well being and reduces anxiety, confusion and the ability to leave. So, obviously, you know that making sense of our environment is so crucial and paramount to health and quality of life. And a well considered interior design can help reduce the patient’s anxiety by providing to help people make sense of their surroundings, and research also shows that good design of the physical environment where patients will be spending most of their time in is increasingly recognised as an important aid and treatment, caring for people with dementia and allows them to live more independently.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
In addition to extensive research into dementia. 2022 really saw the application of virtual reality in care and with very exciting results. We’re going to look at two of these interviews now. One from last month with Kevin Gordon a VR-EP in Scotland. And back in May, we discussed these innovations with Charles King of ROVR treadmills. Can you tell us Charles? Just a background of what virtual reality really means?
Charles King
Yeah, no, of course below the so virtual reality or VR is a is a computer generated three dimensional, real or imagined the environment that can be explored and interacted with by a person. So the person wears VR glasses and earphones, which provide complete visual and hearing immersion. And the effect is of real presence, the sense that I am here, no longer just watching this scene, but present within it.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right even though it is a computer generated thing, you you, the mind takes you into that environment. Is that correct?
Charles King
That’s right. And that’s our brains are kind of have been described by a guy at MIT as kind of data processing, your your eyes feed the data in and your ears see the data in and then it’s the brain kind of generates what the real world is from that. And, and if you if you present it with the right information, then the brain says, ‘Well, this must be real’. And then one of the first actions we find people want to do when presented with somewhere they can walk and explore is to step forward. And without safe, naturally intuitive movement, VR immersion that that sense of being present is broken. And it’s really for this crucial reason we developed over several years, that kind of virtual reality treadmill.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And so what how does this work with a treadmill? What keeps you from falling off, for example? Do you, and also are you doing this totally by yourself or you doing it with other people, I don’t understand how that all fits together.
Charles King
Okay, so keep people safe, and so they can walk forever. A virtual reality treadmill is is something which is a platform which you can walk in any direction. So sometimes called omni-directional treadmills, you can walk in any direction forever, without any fear of colliding with the real world. And, and movement of the feet on the treadmill matches the movement of the feet in the virtual world. So what you get a kind of one to one translation as you move your feet you move in the virtual world, just as you would expect. So if you can walk at three miles an hour in the in in real life, then you can set it up. So you’ve worked three miles an hour and in the virtual world and and that enables you to walk around and explore places. And one of the things that we, we actually discovered way back in 2016 was an extraordinary experience, which some Minecraft users would be familiar with. Certainly the children will be familiar this playing with friends, and being able to walk around in that environment. And most Minecraft users can’t do that. But we set it up so that we could, it is extraordinary and, and being social in that environment where you can walk and explore and hide from each other and lose each other. That’s, so that’s social content suddenly became a real imperative for us that we felt. That’s what’s missing in VR, yes, being able to walk freely as one. But actually, the social content is really important as well.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So what are some of the places that you could explore currently on the system.
Charles King
So we we haven’t started with, with the hardware side of things, we then had to kind of pivot to moving away from kind of providing the hardware and the drivers a little bit like the mouse for VR, if you will. So people are lost if they don’t have a mouse or a trackpad to move around on a screen. So we provided them that. So we had to pivot away from just doing the hardware which we which we continue to do, but also providing some content. And we were really fortunate in in, in Innovate UK, government agency, providing us with funding and grant funding, to look at developing systems for care homes, for Assisted Living settings for older for older people to kind of recondition them after, after COVID. And so we we have to start looking to how to generate places for people to go in VR because the vast majority dreams are not really set up for that and the few that are kind of shooting first person shooter type games, which is not really not really suitable for that for the audience we’re after. And actually, we want to do some education. So we one of the amazing things about the technology, which has happened over the over recent years is the ease with which one can generate 3d models walkable 3d models of real places. So we have a couple of wonderful places down in Cornwall. The Minack theatre is an amphitheatre on on the Cornish coast, looking out to see spectacular views, wonderful environment. And we have that completely captured in VR with kind of photo realism. So you can do my photo realism. And so a couple of pieces down in Cornwall, we’re just preparing a lovely 13th century castle here in Oxfordshire, to do the same. We’ve got a wonderful model of a place in northern Portugal. And in fact, that was the first place that I and my colleagues went to and in COVID lock downs, everybody was locked down here in the UK, in 2020. through March of 2020, and in the earlier part of that year, we we I’ve got a… I’m in Oxford, I have a colleague in Buckingham, I have another colleague over in Brussels, Belgium, and the three of us met in northern Portugal, in a model of a place called Bonne Jesus DeMonte, which is a UNESCO site. So we were gradually building these these places that we can visit. And of course, the the the the revitalise which is this, this VR treadmill system. When we got into some of the these, these care settings, and assisted living settings, we found that people were more deconditioned– people deconditioned if you don’t exercise, that’s true for all ages, by the way, it’s just that the younger you are, the faster you recover. And and what we were finding that we really need to start at an earlier stage than putting them straight onto a treadmill.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. And so you I believe you’ve developed three different systems, I think the called relieve restore and revitalise and you’ve mentioned you know, a lot of this is in response to people losing a certain amount of of mobility from lack of use during COVID. Can you can you just briefly say how each of these systems, what they’re meant for in terms of of use in, in care or with the elderly in general?
Charles King
Yeah, very much too. So, so ROVR restore was was was a product we were actually requested to build by one of the UK kind of larger care providers And it’s what it does is it provides an introduction to VR. It’s the seated, companionable or solo three VR experiences which are essentially 360 video, or CGI. So we’ve generated some computer generated and you sit. So definitely for people who may be chair or bed bound, but also just as a means of, of encouraging conversations and connections and reminiscences. And so a good number of the people we have seen more or less stages of dementia. They’re not all and end all of them, all of that group across the range. Enjoy being presented with new environments to look at. We can provide music or the natural sounds. And that is, that’s a really lovely introduction to VR. And it’s an introduction to wearing a VR headset, an introduction to being able to not just looking in one direction we we find, and it’s not unreasonable that we people have been looking at TVs such a long time that they think they can, there’s only one looking direction once you put it on, you just look ahead. And it comes as rather strange when they find that they can actually move their head around and and what they see changes. It’s as if they are in that real place. And we’ve got we’ve got places from around the world as well as some local tourist spots in Oxfordshire as well so so and elsewhere in the UK. So it really is an introduction to VR and one which works very well to getting people acclimatised to wearing these VR glasses.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
So that’s the Restore and Revitalise is the is the walk around on the safely on the treadmill, what is the relief offer?
Charles King
So the first one which is the city VR is Relieve, Releve, the Restore is really that bridge which bridges between being just seated and not doing anything but looking around and being immersed in an environment and the revitalise which is a fully ambulatory and then we find that there’s a need to get people’s legs strong again. So that’s one of the things that happens when when we’re seated for too long. The quads, deteriorates the hamstrings, give out the I think the medics will call the kind of a calf muscles that can have a little heart which is the thing which pumps our blood back up into the, into the heart if you flex your your calf muscles and that helps to do that. And and how do you do that? Well, so we if people can’t walk then the longer they stay seated, the worse things get. So the ROVRr Restore is really about activating all the muscles attached to the knee. And so this is a seated but active VR experience so you people have gone from the gone from the Releve which they’re just seated and looking around. So now placed into restore now this is a social environment. So they can we’ve got three different environments. Presently we’re looking at another one which would be rather a lovely one as well, which would be walking around the rim of the Grand Canyon. So you’ve got some spectacular views. And And there you’re walking with a friend or with a caregiver, and with others, and you can walk forever, essentially. And and only last week we had a lady and gentleman in one of the settings we were at who were competing with with each other to see who could walk a kilometre. When are these guys had never walked a kilometre for the last few years. So this was a new experience and one of them managed 800 metres and the other one managed, managed just over a kilometre,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
which is pretty good. Fantastic.
Charles King
Really good exercise unwittingly done of course that you know, they didn’t that yes, they knew they were walking and they were trying to achieve this but it was done while we were chatting and it was really lovely to watch
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
as you would if you were walking outside.
Charles King
Absolutely. Absolutely. It is so much easier to walk five miles if you’re with a friend and if you’re walking alone. And I think that’s it’s that social context is the and that’s all. We have a wonderful medical director you mentioned in the beginning Sir Vuir Gray and his his encouragement always is in social connection in unwitting exercise where you can do it at the CDC and the NHS both advocate 150 minutes of breathless exercise each week. And that’s tricky for many to do irrespective of age but it becomes more challenging in northern winters. And the weather isn’t always conducive to getting out
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
and doing depending on where you are where you are in the world.
Charles King
Yeah, can be tougher in Canada, I suspect.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Also, this year, we heard from Kevin Gordon of the award winning VR EP, who’s taking a different approach to the use of virtual reality by allowing architects, designers and care staff to see the world through the eyes of someone with dementia. I began by asking Kevin, what response he generally gets from people trying this equipment for the first time,
Kevin Gordon
just an awakening, a raising of awareness, you know, that empathetic experience, that immersive experience that VR provides. And you know, seeing the world through someone else’s eyes, is a really powerful experience and a life changing experience. Really.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
We read and we do research about how people with dementia might experience it. And I know you were working with University of Stirling a bit on what some of the parameters are, obviously, everybody with dementia has a slightly different experience. So how were you able to tie down? What the virtual reality experience might be for somebody trying to look through the eyes of somebody with dementia? How did you decide what those parameters were?
Kevin Gordon
What we state this part of our training platform, which is a key offering that we can deliver to housing associations, NHS care practitioners, OTs, we always state and there’s an understanding right at the outset that this is not, you know, you’ve met one person with dementia, you’ve met one person with dementia, but there are commonalities that are common ground, you know, I mean, when we worked with the academia in the early days, Lori the the said, this is a game changer, you know, to be able to take all that all that 3D, and immerse yourself in that environment. Now, you know, the key parameters, the key areas that you experience everyone experiences is contrast is lighting, is colour is D saturation is how not just dementia is in fact, it’s a bigger area. It’s a bigger subject. It’s a wider challenge, because it’s the age die. You know, it’s glaucoma, macular degeneration. Yes, my mother and my mother in law who had Alzheimer’s dementia passed away, sadly, I’ll never forget, I use a picture of her on my plantations. And she said to me one day said something’s different with my eyes. She said, things are different, you know, the patterns on the floor, the colours, this outfit, and when what cotton, it was the wrong colour that she that she picked up there. She wasn’t there wasn’t a colorblindness issue, but it was the dementia who that was compounding that, that issue that visual issues, perceptual, spatial, you know, visual perceptual challenges are common, particularly across four areas of the of the dementia spectrum. But it has been, it has been a real challenge. And really what we’re trying to do is our platform is not for sadly, it’s not a cure. And it’s not for the person living with dementia, but everyone round about that person. So the families and the carers and the designers and the practitioners who are looking after personal with living with dementia to raise the awareness of the importance of good design and bad design,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
but it’s not what you think. I mean, the thing that struck me because, you know, I research I give lectures on this, I know about light reflective value differences. And I know about contrast levels and boy asked me, I know all this stuff, when you put the virtual reality headsets on, it’s not what you think amount of D saturation of colour is shocking. absolutely shocking. It’s not as if the world goes entirely into grayscale, but it may as well, the lighting level drop, I mean, it was it was really, fundamentally changed. My understanding just that one experience, even though I’ve been researching and working in this area for decades, it was absolutely spectacular. So you use this for, as you said, other people so you use it for staff training, is that correct?
Kevin Gordon
That’s a big, a really kind of important sector for us. Because that’s, that’s where we find real interest, you know, is raising that awareness and getting the message across to families that you know, the government’s strategy with England and the and Scots is to really keep people at home for as long as possible. You know, I mean, that’s going to really improve the quality of life and their age as well. And you know, to be able to understand just key design changes that you can make at home to improve the quality of life and carer safety, reduce slips, trips and falls and the impact the economic The impact and and the social impact, and the mental impact and the physical impact of family, if you can improve that environment make that safer and better quality. And then we’ve achieved a good aimn.me. So training is definitely a major area, because of the impact that you experienced, you noticed that, wow, this is and we go through some key design changes as part of the training we hear from a lady who lives living with dementia. And she’s just sharing that her experience of moving into another flat and moving home. And where she makes changes of, of contrasting the light switches of contrasting of signage, the importance of signage, the importance of green and blue and hot and cold and red and blue, and markings on the taps, you know and we can we can share that and really empathise with that and share that experience in VR-EP. Because we have we have that, that those spaces modelled.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
We’ll end our ‘Best of the Innovation Spotlight’ review with one of my very favourites from June of 2022. It’s an interview with Karl Emmanuelsson, about the Sunwell Group and the many benefits of natural daylight in interior environments.
Karl Emmanuelsson
This dates back about 10 or 12 years ago, and I’ve always been really into radical well being all aspects of well being in fact, so your body, your mind, your soul, your spirit. And I’ve also always loved the sound. So I read this newspaper article, and he was it was taken in a care home. And it was it just looked it looked amazing. He looked at he had a tropical backdrop, we had beach lounges, and you saw the care home residents sitting there enjoying sipping tropical cocktails. They had hula hoops around their necks. Yeah, go ahead. And to me, it just looked. It looked it looks a little bit gimmicky. And then I saw another article with the Swedish Prime Minister was letting his hair down in one in one of these installations. And then there was another article with the Swedish king. And I was like, wow, he’s usually quite reserved, but he was just lucky there. And you saw these elderly people were having a really good time. So I was intrigued. And, and I thought I got I got to experience this myself. So I said to my beautiful wife, I’m gonna go to sweet and this was in the middle of the winter, and I’m gonna go and experience this sweet indoor beach and she’s usually quite supportive. So she said, All right, all right. Off you go to Sweden. To experience this.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Your Swedish nationality anyway. Yes.
Karl Emmanuelsson
Yes, that’s true. Yes, yes. So anyway, so I went over, I went over and I met the Swedish in inventor Ingomar. is super clever guy thinking out of the box, and he’s made several innovations. I don’t know if you remember this movie back, back in the 80s. ‘Back to the Future’ you got, of course. So imagine this guy, you know, flowing hair, and really inspiring. And an initially he invented the sunlight technology for Volvo and Saab to test out cars and trucks. So instead of flying them out to the Arizona desert for three months to test, different sun conditions, how we affected the cars, for example, they wanted to do this in house. So cars, they have wind tunnels. Now they also have some tunnels. So he invented this first and then he then he realised that you have a positive effect on the factory workers. And they used to tell him when he come to service, the the equipment that how marvellous, they felt like sitting in the sun. And then and then he got down to an idea that, wow, maybe there’s maybe there’s another aspect and how I can use this for for wellbeing. And at the time. There was a lot of a lot of press about solariums and the negativity about too much UV etc. So he worked together with some Swedish universities and the authorities to make it 100% safe. So even called the weather station in Mauritius because he wanted the exact same conditions that you have when you go on a tropical beach holiday. So he so he developed the sunlight and over the next year or two, he invented 1000s of people around to come and give feedback and what he what he what he realised what it was not just about the sound. It was also about creating a really authentic environments or multi sensory environments or sand on the floor, tropical beach backdrops where it feels and looks exactly like yours. on a beach so you’re you’re wrapped around with beautiful scenery, you got the sound, the sound from the sea, you got the smells you got we’d have… a fan blowing your hair if you if you want to have a bit of a bit of a sea breeze and I also noticed, KCarl that there are different settings so you can say you’re in Copacabana or you can say you’re in Miami, and you get a slightly different kind of colour sunlight experience from each of those. So in a in a care home setting for especially in in countries where there’s not a lot of natural daylight, this sense of well being that you can just kind of tap into at any point, especially if, if perhaps you don’t go outside a lot, or you’re not particularly immobile must have phenomenal results. Yeah, it’s, it’s profound. And especially in in care home settings, where where you have dementia patients, they found that not only is it is it beneficial for the mood, and it’s calm, and it actually protects you from from cancers and so of course, because you get the vitamin D boost from the sun, but it also helps reduce anxiety. And it’s, and it’s massively helped them reduce the reliance on on sort of calming medicines, and they’ve reduced the number of incidents with dementia patients and so forth. And also, it brings a lot of joy and happiness. And Care Home residents, they, they actually create new memories of being on a beach holiday together.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And it doesn’t take a big space, it can just be the equipment itself isn’t enormous, you just need place for some lounge chairs, you can put a mural up on the wall or whatever, whatever it is you want, you wouldn’t even necessarily need need to do that. But having having that light and creating a malt, as you said, a multi sensory experience could also benefit the staff on their staff breaks that sense of well being. So after meeting you and having this experience personally, my company’s working on a project right now. And we’ve put this forward for a staff room.
Karl Emmanuelsson
That is a wonderful idea. And actually one of they did some studies on the early installations in Sweden, where they actually proved that it helped reduce staff sick leave by 25%. So especially, you know, shift workers, they hardly get to see the sun. And I have so much respect for for care home staff because it can be a very chaotic and stressful environment to work in. And to be able to go on your coffee breaks to be able to actually sit in a nice relaxing space and you know, build relationships with the, with the residents. It’s it can be so profound,
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
without giving you no exact financial figures. Is there a range a cost range that anybody listening to this because presumably, this equipment can be sent anywhere in the world on for you. So it has an international audience which the podcast has, what can you give me a guideline on what the cost is so that people would know whether or not it’s it would work for them? Potentially?
Karl Emmanuelsson
Sure. So the the sunlight unit by itself cost around 20,000 pounds, and I fully fitted multisensory, some room is around 30,000 pounds, and I get everything and that’s that’s for a space, which is usually around 16 square metres where you can get four or five residents in there will be a little space where you can have a beach bar, and or maybe a couple of other chairs sitting outside of the sunlight as well.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
Right. But also at that kind of cost point that could be a fundraising, a specific fundraising event to raise money for a particular particular purpose. Because and and then that gives the home or whatever environment it’s being used in an opportunity to market the fact that they have this technology.
Karl Emmanuelsson
Yes, no, there’s many examples of that. Where where there was one care home group hearing here in the UK, where they specifically got grants to instal five of these sunrooms from the local council to to increase the well being of the both the staff and the and the residents and but actually what’s what I really love about this is also because I remember back in the day when when I was four or five years old, I went to visit my great grandma in a care home and I I always used to dread going there because I was just left by myself and the adults were having a conversation. But what I’ve seen in these installations is actually becomes an event. So grandchildren love actually love to come in into the care home because they can even bring their swimming trunks, they can sit in the sand and build sand castles, play games, with their great grandparents and any creates not only an opportunity to reminisce about past holidays together, but they can, they can actually create new memories together. So it’s so wonderful to see.
Lori Pinkerton-Rolet
And that’s our review of the best of the innovation spotlight. If you’d like any additional information on any of today’s innovations, you can find links on the podcast page for this episode on our website at Third Age Dot Design. We’re starting off 2023 with a bang. And I’m talking virtual not literal fireworks when our January guest will be Dr. Gingy clang of the University of Stirling in Scotland, talking about their environments for ageing and dementia design assessment Toolkit, which is easier pronounced as a dat thank you to all of the guests represented on today’s podcast. Dr. Bushra Siddiqui of Cogni DX, Charles King of ROVR VR, Kevin Gordon of VR-EP, and Karl Emanuellson representing the Sunwell Group. Thank you also to our producer Mike Scales for a wonderful 2022, to Valerie Adler of The Right Website for her tireless support, to Peter Thorne, who composed our theme music and is playing the piano with Mary Blanchard on flute and to our sponsor, Innova Care Concepts, the leading edge of health care, finally, to you. Thank you for being part of an international community who believes we can improve senior environments together. I’m Lori Pinkerton-Rolet and I do hope you’ll join me for the next one.